Two Fathers from Gaza and Israel Discuss Grief and Anger at 92NY

Three years after the Hamas-led attack of October 7, 2023, Columbia SIPA’s Institute of Global Politics hosted a conversation at 92NY with Jonathan Dekel-Chen and Jaser AbuMousa, two fathers from opposite sides of the war, to talk about moving forward together despite the immense loss both experienced in the past three years.

“Too often, Israelis and Palestinians in the media become abstractions or symbols of competing political positions and narratives,” said SIPA Dean Keren Yarhi-Milo as she welcomed the audience. The conversation that followed sought to demonstrate that “recognizing another person’s humanity does not require surrendering your own.”

The conversation began with both fathers describing what the war had cost them. On October 7th, 74 members of the Israeli Kibbutz Nir Oz, not far from the border with Gaza, were taken hostage by Hamas, including Dekel-Chen’s son Sagui, who was held hostage in Gaza for 498 days. Sixty-four members of the Kibbutz were ultimately killed. The resulting retaliatory strikes by Israel killed AbuMousa’s wife, two of their four children, his mother, sister, uncle, nephews, and many other relatives and neighbors.

Claire Shipman ‘86CC, MIA ‘94, the former acting president of Columbia University, moderated the conversation. She asked Dekel-Chen and AbuMousa how they managed to move past pain, vengeance, and anger to urge everybody engaged in the conflict to find humanity in the other side. AbuMousa was quick to correct her. “The anger is there, and the anger is real,” he said. What he learned is where to direct it. “I will not point it at Jonathan because he is an Israeli,” he said. “I will point it at policies, leaders, systems that were invented to kill people.”

Similarly, Dekel-Chen explained that although the more organic and natural route after such loss leads into the “trap of perpetuating hatred,” the alternative is to digest what each side has lost, realize that they’ve witnessed the “rock bottom of humanity,” and ask whether that is what they want for their children and grandchildren.

“There are no answers on the other side — the side of hatred. The Gazans aren't going anywhere, despite the fantasies of our far-right wing in Israel. And Israelis aren't going anywhere, despite the fantasies of fundamentalists and Islamists,” Dekel-Chen said.

That stance has come at a cost to both men, who described being viewed with suspicion by some in their respective communities, including members of the diaspora in the United States. But neither has been deterred, in part because neither expects his own leaders to end the conflict.

“The answer has to come from people like us, who have seen hell,” said Dekel-Chen. “Our only agenda is trying to ensure that our families, communities, and countries have some kind of future that isn’t just rage, hatred, and bloodshed.”

While Dekel-Chen emphasised the importance of grassroots movements and the release of hostages, AbuMousa brought the conversation back to the present.

“Let's not talk about big ideas. Let's talk about things that can be done right now, which is: allow the people of Gaza to live,” he said. People in Gaza, he noted, do not have the luxury of feeling despair as they continue to face strikes and bury their children to this day. He also described the arbitrary system and rising costs that Palestinians must pay just to leave Gaza.

Asked what the audience could do to help the fathers’ mission, Dekel-Chen urged Americans to make their views known to their elected representatives, noting that he did not believe Israel would have agreed to a hostage deal without determined pressure from Washington. He stressed the importance of separating “what’s good for Israel from what’s good for this or that government in Israel”.